Episode 2: Intent, Purpose, Meaning

Show Transcript

Jay Lee [00:00:00]:

Hey, this is Pastor Jay Lee, and I want to introduce you to God. The Intro to God podcast. Episode Two Intentionality. You you. Hey guys, Pastor Jay here and welcome back to the Intro to God podcast. Just want to say that I am so thankful that you guys would join me on this journey and are willing to have this conversation with me. And honestly, I think that it takes a lot of courage to engage in a conversation about God, and not only that, but to open your mind to the possibility that maybe there are some things that you don't fully know or fully understand. And so I think it takes a lot of humility to open yourself up to these conversations.

Jay Lee [00:01:02]:

And I'm honored that you would trust me in some small way to lead you into a conversation about God. And so if you're out there listening, I would love to hear from you. If you have any comments or questions or feedback or even pushback, I'd love if you would reach out so I can connect with you. And so you can visit our website, Intro to Godpod.com, and you can send me an email or even more fun, you can leave me a voice recording, and that way I can actually play it on the podcast. And so even if you just want to say hi and hear your voice on the podcast, leave me a message. I'd love to connect with you. Now, something that I said in episode one was that if I knew that I was only ever going to have one conversation with you about God, I would skip straight to talking about Jesus. But because this is a podcast and you can listen to this whenever you want and at any speed that you want, I thought it would be nice to start one step further back, one step closer to where you guys are at right now.

Jay Lee [00:02:06]:

And that's why in season one, before we even talk about Jesus or the Bible, we're just exploring even a more fundamental question of is there any good reason to consider that maybe a God might exist? And so I'm sharing with you guys three classic arguments for the existence of God. If you haven't had a chance to listen to episode one, I highly encourage you guys to go back and listen to that. But today episode two, I'm going to share with you guys what is known philosophically as the teleological argument. Yeah, I know, big word, but it comes from the Greek word tellos, which means purpose or intention. And so let's not waste any more time. If you guys are ready, let's get strapped in here's. Episode Two Intentionality. So to begin this conversation, I want to ask you to imagine a scenario with me.

Jay Lee [00:03:17]:

Let's imagine that you and I were going to meet in person, and let's pretend that I invited you to come meet me in my office. Now, I don't actually have an office. In fact, I record this podcast in my car. But for the sake of the story, let's say I invited you to come meet me in my office. As you come into my office, you notice sitting on my desk a model of the solar system. And so maybe there's a large styrofoam ball that's been painted yellow that represents the sun. And there are some arms that are coming off of the base with other smaller styrofoam balls painted different colors that represent the planets. And maybe even the arms can rotate around the base to simulate the orbit of the planets around the sun.

Jay Lee [00:04:08]:

And so as you come into the office, you say, oh, hey, nice model. Did your kid make that? Is that their science project? And then I reply, oh, no. And so then you kind of probe further, oh, did you make it? And then I say oh, no. Nobody made it. Now you're a little confused by my response, so you probe further, oh. I mean, did you make it? And I say, no. Nobody made it. It just came together naturally.

Jay Lee [00:04:36]:

Now you're starting to get a little annoyed, and you say, what are you talking about? Don't be ridiculous. Obviously somebody made this. Like, did you buy it? I say, no, nobody made it. It came together naturally. And then I try to explain myself. I say no. No. So we had all the parts, like the styrofoam and the paint and the base and the arms, and we put them all in a box, and just over a very, very long period of time, it just naturally formed.

Jay Lee [00:05:03]:

And then at this point, you get pissed off and you leave. Now, here's the thing. There's probably nothing that I could say to convince you that that model of the solar system formed naturally, that it just came together by itself with no active creator or designer bringing those parts together. Like, there's nothing that I could say, probably to convince you that that's what happened. But many people believe that the real solar system and the real universe formed naturally without any creator or designer putting it together with purpose and intentionality. But if you're really being honest, can you tell me what the difference is between those two scenarios? Why is it impossible to believe that that model of the solar system could somehow come together without a purposeful, intentional creator behind it? But we can believe that the real solar system and the real universe could come together without a purpose, intentional creator? And so the second classic argument for the existence of God is the argument from design that the existence of the universe and the order and organization and the systems that we see within the universe and within life itself suggests that there is some purposeful design that has gone into it, that there is something or someone with intentionality who has put the systems of the universe together. I don't know. Is this something that you've ever really, truly thought about and considered kind of going back to the story that we started with? You know, why is it so impossible to believe that the model could have formed naturally by itself, yet we can believe that the real solar system could form naturally without a purpose intentional designer behind it? And I think that what most people would argue is that we can explain the formation of the solar system and really just the entire universe through the natural laws that are in operation in the universe.

Jay Lee [00:07:49]:

That there are these laws of physics and chemistry that given matter and space and these natural laws of physics and chemistry working on them. With enough time, you would see all that exists in the universe form that we don't need to appeal to a designer or a god. It can naturally form because of these laws. That actually makes sense to me. But actually what's more intriguing to me is the laws themselves. And to kind of help explain what I mean here, I want to talk for a second about computers. I'm not a computer scientist, but obviously technology and computers have just revolutionized the world, which is an understatement and I'm just continually amazed by computers. But to be honest, I'm not that amazed by all of the incredible things that we are developing today with computers.

Jay Lee [00:08:53]:

I mean, it is amazing. Like there's just all the different kinds of softwares and applications that people are developing that are just so useful to us and make our lives better every day. It is amazing. I'm not saying it's not amazing, but at the same time I get it, right? We have these powerful computers that have operating systems where certain rules and functions and tools and we have programming languages so we have all this infrastructure and these platforms upon which we can build these incredible applications that we use every day. And so it's incredible. But I mean, it makes sense to me, right? We have the infrastructure and the platforms and the tools in place that we can just put them together in different ways to create these amazing applications and programs and software. But what really sort of baffles my mind about computers is trying to go back to the beginning of computers, right? Because at some point, if you go back far enough in the history of computing, at some point there was a time before there was any operating systems, right? Before there was a Windows or a Linux, before there was any coding languages or even any kind of graphical interface. I mean, at some point, if you go back far enough in the history of computing, there must be a point where it crosses over into being purely hardware.

Jay Lee [00:10:23]:

Like no software even, right? Like a purely mechanical machine, right? I don't know if there's anybody out there that understands computers better. Maybe you can reach out and explain this to me but it just baffles my mind how we made the jump from a purely mechanical machine, hardware only to software and digital and having operating systems with rules and functions and coding languages, these tools that we use to create applications and create useful things with technology. And I think this is similar to the argument about the universe that it's not just the physical things that we see in the universe that indicate some sort of purposeful, intentional designer, though I think they do as well. But it's the fact that there seems to be a platform, an operating system in place in the universe that the universe displays incredible order. The universe is mathematical. There is an operating system and a platform in place, which normally we describe as natural laws like physics and chemistry. And there's data everywhere, like even within a single living cell. There's so much data stored in there.

Jay Lee [00:11:55]:

And so I agree, given all the systems and the rules and the operating system that's in place in the universe, it makes sense that given the matter and enough time, that everything that we see in the universe could form naturally. I get that. But the deeper question is why are there these systems and this platform, this operating system that seems to be in place? Why is the universe mathematical? An idea that I think I've heard become more and more popular in the culture in recent years is what some call simulation theory. Maybe you've heard of this, but basically it's the idea that our reality might actually be a computer simulation. And I think that this theory has gained a little bit more popularity because big names like Elon Musk and Neil degrasse Tyson have talked about it and even suggested that they think it might even be probable. But to be honest, I feel like simulation theory is like the atheist or agnostic version of this argument. The argument that the universe shows evidence of design and intentionality, some sort of purposeful programming. It's actually a very similar thought.

Jay Lee [00:13:18]:

But instead of a designer, we have a programmer. Instead of creation, we have a simulation. But I think both are making similar insights about the nature of this universe that we live in, that it is incredibly ordered and systematic and mathematical. There are rules and laws in place. There seems to be programming and data and an operating system upon which our reality is built. Why? How? But could it suggest that maybe there is a programmer who has purposefully and with intentionality designed the systems and rules upon which our universe is built? And so there's the second classic argument for the existence of God. And like I said in episode one, I don't think any of these arguments necessarily in and of themselves prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a God must exist. I think each of these three arguments asks important questions that when we think them through critically and honestly, do raise some questions about explaining the existence of the universe and our own existence apart from a God.

Jay Lee [00:15:11]:

And so this second classic argument, this argument from design, that there is a purposeful designer who has created the universe and us with intentionality. But I think it's impossible for us to talk about a designer who has created us with intentionality and purpose and for it not to spill over into a conversation about meaning. See, I think that the question of meaning to this life is closely related to this question of purpose and intentionality behind our existence. If indeed there is a God or some sort of Creator behind our existence who has created us with some sort of purpose in mind, then that means there is certainly some objective meaning to be found in life because it implies that we indeed have a true and objective purpose for why we are here. But if it's true that we're all just here purely by happenstance, just as the result of a random, undirected process with no purposeful, intentional designer giving rise to us, then how do we find meaning in this life? Now, some of you might be getting offended right now, and I apologize. I'm not trying to offend you the implication that because you are an atheist or agnostic that you have no meaning in life, or that you have no purpose in life. And I apologize. I'm not trying to be offensive at all, just trying to think these things through critically and logically.

Jay Lee [00:17:17]:

I think the truth of the matter is almost all people, most people do find some sort of purpose and meaning in their lives, whether it be in caring for their families, their children, or in the work that they do, in the ways that they serve and help people, in the things that they build and create. I think the vast majority of people do find meaning and purpose in their lives. So I'm not arguing against that. I guess what I'm suggesting is that if we are all just here as the result of random, undirected process, without any kind of intentionality behind our existence, then any meaning that we find in this life is purely subjective. It's just something that we have created for ourselves to try to find meaning and purpose in. But we can't really say that in any true and objective sense that it is truly meaningful. Something that I've observed in my 40 years of life and 13 plus years of walking with people as a pastor. I am just continually amazed at what kind of depths of suffering or pain or tragedy that people are able to live through.

Jay Lee [00:18:45]:

Like just the the endurance of the human spirit is truly incredible sometimes. And how even in the worst of simulation, most people seem to be able to find some sort of silver lining, some sort of meaning or purpose to cling to, to get through it and continue to live on. But when a person gets to a place where they feel that there is no real meaning to life, that none of it really means anything. That is a despair that can be crushing. And maybe some of you who are listening to this, that's where you're at, where you don't really believe that there is a God out there, but you're living in this mental space where you can't rationally see how any of this life has meaning or any real purpose, and you're suffering because of it. And maybe you're listening to this podcast because even though you don't really believe there is a God, you're desperately wishing that there was. And so, in fear of getting too preachy here, if that is you, I just want to ask you to hold on and keep entering into this conversation courageously and humbly with me or with other people of faith around you. And I hope that in just some small way, just some of these thoughts that I'm sharing with you could be opening a new space in your mind and in your heart that says, maybe it is possible.

Jay Lee [00:20:25]:

Maybe there really is a God out there. And maybe he really did create everything and me with intentionality. There's a movie that came out a few years ago called Hugo. I don't know if you saw it, but the main character, Hugo, is an orphan who lives alone in a train station clock tower, trying to unravel the mystery of this broken robot that his father left behind. And there's this great quote that he has in the movie. He says, Everything has a purpose. Clocks tell you the time trains take you to places. I'd imagine the whole world was one big machine, and machines never come with any extra parts, you know, they always come with the exact amount they need.

Jay Lee [00:21:23]:

So I figured if the entire world was one big machine, I couldn't be an extra part. I had to be here for some reason. And that means you have to be here for some reason, too. And so that's it for this episode. I want to thank you again for joining me on this journey, and I really want to hear your thoughts and your comments and your questions. Maybe you think I got it completely wrong, or maybe you want to dig deeper into something that we've said. Feel free to reach out to me on the website. You can visit introtogodpod.com and connect with me there.

Jay Lee [00:22:08]:

If you're enjoying the podcast and you want to support us, please share this episode with a friend. You can also visit us at Intro to Godpod.com and let us know that you're listening next time, episode Three Good and Evil.