Episode 4: Now What?

Show Transcript

Jay Lee [00:00:00]:

Hey, this is Pastor Jay Lee, and I want to introduce you to God. Episode four - Now what? Hey, guys, Pastor Jay here and welcome back to the Intro to God podcast. And today is the season one finale. I know it's hard to believe. And so for those of you guys who have been on this journey with me, thank you so much. I came into this season with a very modest goal. And really that goal was for those of you guys who are here listening, but really, in your mind, the idea that there's some sort of God out there is like pretty much the same as the thought that Superman exists somewhere out there - that the idea of a God existing is pretty much just pure mythology and superstition

Jay Lee [00:01:10]:

And you just feel like there's really no good reasons to take the thought seriously. And so here in season one, all I've really been trying to accomplish is to show you that maybe there are some compelling reasons why it is worth seriously considering whether or not a God exists. And so we've been talking through these three classic arguments for the existence of God, and we won't rehash them all here. If you haven't listened to those episodes yet, please go back and listen to them. And I've acknowledged throughout that I don't think any of these three arguments necessarily proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God must exist. But what I do think that these arguments do, especially when you put the three of them together, is that they demonstrate that there are still a lot of questions about our existence and about the nature of the universe and the nature of life itself that cannot be adequately answered by purely naturalistic means. That if you try to explain the origins of the universe and the meaning of life and morality, good and evil, right and wrong, that there are some pretty serious deficiencies when you're trying to explain them purely from a naturalistic point of view. And that really, in some cases, it's actually easier to explain or maybe even, dare I would say, a little bit more logical, if there is some sort of God or creator or some sort of just eternal something out there from which the universe and we originate.

Jay Lee [00:03:02]:

And so, honestly, I don't know how good of a job I have done to make that case. But I hope at the very least, that some of you can see that it is possible to take seriously the possibility that God exists, even as a thinking person, that you don't have to turn off your brain or turn off logic or rational thought to seriously consider that maybe there is a God. You don't have to stop believing in science. Now, if you started this conversation just sort of thinking that, yeah, it's just a pure fantasy and fiction, I hope that maybe this conversation has opened up some new pathways of thought for you, some new lines of questioning and maybe a new openness to really seriously investigate whether or not God is real. You. Now, before we wrap up season One, I want to go back and talk about something that we touched on, and that is the question of evil and suffering in the world. In any conversation about whether God exists, it always comes back to this question, well, if God really exists and if God is really so good and so loving and so powerful, right? Supposedly God is everywhere and he knows everything and he's all powerful. If he's really all these things, then why is there so much evil in the world still? Why is there so much suffering and so much pain, so much senseless violence and tragedies? And so I think this question is really one of the greatest stumbling blocks and one of the biggest blockers for a lot of you to move forward in your investigation of God.

Jay Lee [00:05:04]:

And let me just say right from the start, I don't have all the answers to this question. I think it would be foolish to think that we can just answer away this question. And honestly, a lot of times it's difficult to even talk about this question because usually if you're talking to somebody, they may be asking because they themselves have endured a lot of suffering in their life and had great evil done to them in that situation. I think any attempt to try to sort of rationally and logically explain the evil and suffering in the world away can come off as very insensitive and offensive. And so I'm hoping that here at least is a little bit more of a neutral space where we can kind of talk through this issue in a little bit more of a sort of high level way, since I'm not necessarily talking specifically and directly to any one person. And like I said, I would not presume to think that I have the answers to this question. But really what I want to share is some answers. I don't have the answer, but I do have some answers from a Christian perspective of how we reconcile the existence of a good and loving God, yet there is still so much suffering and evil in the world.

Jay Lee [00:06:28]:

And so while I don't think any of this can just completely answer the question for you, I hope that it can at least shrink the barrier of this question for you and just move it enough so that it doesn't have to be a stopper for you in your investigation of God. Now, as a bit of a caveat, I'm approaching this question from the perspective of a Christian and Christian belief and Christian teaching. And so I don't know that what I say here would necessarily apply to any other faith. But really these are thoughts on how to reconcile the existence of God and evil from the Christian understanding of God now let's start with kind of outlining the classic argument or syllogism against the existence of God. And it goes something like this if God is all powerful, all knowing and all present, and he is all good, then evil will not exist. But evil does exist. Therefore, either God is not all powerful and not able to prevent evil from happening or he is not all knowing. Maybe he's just not aware of all the evil that is happening and going to happen so that's why he can't stop it.

Jay Lee [00:07:51]:

Or God is not all present, that he just can't be everywhere at once and that's why he can't stop evil. Or maybe he's just not really good that if he really exists and he is all powerful and all knowing and all present, but he still allows evil to exist, then he must not be good. Or finally, maybe God doesn't exist at all. And so that is sort of the classic argument that a lot of people use to argue that, hey, because there is so much evil and suffering in the world, god probably doesn't exist and definitely the Christian God doesn't exist. And so what I'll say about that argument is that there is one big assumption that is being made in that argument. And the assumption is that there's no way that a good and loving God would allow evil to exist in the world. And what we find at least if we're talking about the Bible's teaching about God on this, that just isn't a true premise. It's a false assumption at least about the Christian God.

Jay Lee [00:08:59]:

And so that's where at least that argument fails. So from a Christian perspective, from a biblical perspective, there is no logical conflict between a good and loving and powerful God existing and evil and suffering existing in the world. Just from a purely theological standpoint, there is no conflict there. But I think we still need more than that. We still need to know how we can reconcile these two things together in a way that makes sense and in a way that doesn't just completely undermine the character of God. But I think it's at least helpful in trying to reconcile these two things to talk about what the Bible says are the sources of evil and suffering in the world. See in Christian theology or basically in the teaching of the Bible, which is where we get our understanding of who God is and who we are in relationship to him and sort of the nature of the universe. In Christian theology, the definition of evil is that which is contrary to the character of God.

Jay Lee [00:10:14]:

And consequently the source of suffering in the world is because there are things in the universe, there are things that we do that are contrary to what God intended, contrary to how God designed us and the universe to be and to function. And that is the source of suffering. And so really the source of evil and suffering in the world are human freedom, the ability of us creatures to choose and make decisions whether or not to be who God created us to be and live the way that he created us to live or not. There's an interesting dynamic because we look out into the world and we see all this suffering and all this pain and all this evil that is being done, and we blame it on God. God, how could you let this happen? But if we're being really honest, I think we can see that the vast majority of suffering, the source of these evils in the world are people. I mean, God isn't out there dropping the bombs. He's not out there pulling the trigger. He's not out there robbing liquor stores.

Jay Lee [00:11:32]:

It's people. The question that we ask is, well, God, why did you allow that to happen? Rather than pointing the finger at ourselves and doing some introspection to ask why it is that we are so prone to evil and to inflict this pain and suffering on one another. So I think it begs the question, well, then why did God create us with freedom? Why did he give us this ability to choose when we have done such terrible things to one another with that freedom and that choice, and it has resulted in such terrible, terrible evils in the world. And really, when we're asking that question, we're basically asking, wouldn't it have been better for God to have just created us as robots? Robots who only do as we are programmed to do and do not have any free will or moral capabilities, right? We we just do what we were programmed to do with no ability to choose evil or to do wrong. And there's a thought from C. S. Lewis that is helpful here. I don't know if he's the originator of this thought or if he got it from somebody else, but I learned it from C.

Jay Lee [00:13:06]:

CS. Lewis. And basically what he suggests is that if God had created us without freedom, then certainly there would have been no evil. But without free will, there would have been no possibility, no capacity within us to love, right? Because love is not something that can just be programmed. Love is not something that can be forced. Love is something that has to be chosen and felt. And so, yes, God could have created us without freedom, without the ability to choose, but he would have then also been creating a world where we had no ability to love and have genuine relationship. We would have just been robots automatons.

Jay Lee [00:13:55]:

And so the fact that he did create us with freedom of choice, even though we use that choice sometimes to do evil and to reject him but also have the capacity to choose good and to love him and to love one another. That in God's view. That must have been a higher good than just creating us as perfect robots who do no wrong, but also have no capacity to love or have relationships. At this point, I think some people might ask the question, well, maybe God shouldn't have created us at all. I mean, if God knows everything, then certainly he must have known what we were going to do with our free will and with our free choice, that we would make horrible choices as humanity and the level of evil and suffering that would be wrought by those choices. I mean, surely he must have known that that was going to happen. Why would he then go ahead and still create us? And honestly, this is another tough question. I'm not exactly sure how to answer this question.

Jay Lee [00:15:15]:

The best that I can do to try to make any sense of it is to actually draw an analogy from us, human beings. Like why do we choose to have kids? I have two kids myself, one who is only four months old. Why do we choose that? And certainly we see that not all kids grow up to do good things. That a lot of kids grow up to be people who do very horrible things, who cause a lot of pain and suffering to their parents, other people even to themselves. And parents who have just great trials and tribulations with some of their kids or maybe experience tragedies miscarriages, god forbid, the loss of a child. Like, there's all these horrible things that happen around having kids all the time, every day. Why do we still want to do it? And that's not to speak of just the change that it makes to your lifestyle, right? Going from no kids to having kids and just how it just completely takes over your life, all of the work and the sacrifice that goes into being a parent. Why do we keep doing it? Why do we open ourselves to such hardship and sacrifice and pain? But at the end of the day, even with all of the negative, there's just still something inside of us as humans.

Jay Lee [00:16:47]:

There's still something inside of humanity. We just want to create life, and we just want to nurture new life into being, into existence. It's just almost innate in us. And perhaps that innate desire within us to want to create life and to love it and to nurture it into existence is actually a reflection of the nature of God in us. The reason why we have that in us is because that is in God. And so why would God still create us, knowing all of the hard things and the pain and the evil that would come with it? And I can't say I know the answer to that question, but I can say that whatever it is in God that made him want to do that, we see that same thing in us too. That there's just something inside of us and something inside the heart of God that just wants to create life and bring it into existence and nurture it and love it. And so, like I said at the beginning, I don't have the answer to this question.

Jay Lee [00:17:59]:

But I think these are just pieces of thoughts that can help us to at least make some sort of peace with this question in our minds. If God really exists and he is really so good and loving and he is really so powerful, how could all the evil and the suffering that we see in the world exist? And the answer that we have to that question is because God created us with freedom, with free will, the ability to choose. Even if we use that choice to do wrong, to do evil, and to inflict pain and suffering on other people. Why would he do that? Why would he create us with that terrible power, that terrible ability? Well, because without the ability to choose, there would have been no ability to love and to have genuine relationships, because love cannot be forced. Love is always a choice and it always has to be freely given. Well, maybe God shouldn't have created us at all. I mean, if he knew what we were going to do with our freedom, maybe he shouldn't have had us at all. And though there's certainly logic to that, it would seem that God's heart is similar to our own.

Jay Lee [00:19:28]:

In that even though we know that bringing children into this world can result in all kinds of negative or bad things, there's still something inside of us that desires to create life and to love it and to nurture it into existence. And we see that same thing in the heart of God. And so rather than choosing not to create us because he knew we were going to go wrong, he decided instead to find a way to redeem us, to bring us back to what he intended us to be. And that will be the subject of season two of the podcast, Intro to Jesus. And so we've come to the end of season one. You might be thinking, what now? Now that we've kind of explored in a general way the the possible existence of a God, I think the next question for us to explore is if God is out there, who is he? What is he like? What does he want? Why has he created us? And so in season two, we're going to talk about Jesus, how he is, the revelation of the nature of God and his purpose in human history. Now, I'll be totally honest with you guys. I have no idea when I'm going to get around to making season two.

Jay Lee [00:21:07]:

And so if you're listening to this podcast in real time and you want to keep going on this journey, I don't want you to be sitting around for season two to drop, whenever that's going to be. And so if that is you, would you please reach out to me? You can go to the website introtogodpod.com and just let me know that, hey, you're on this journey and you're wanting to take the next step in exploring more about who God actually is. And this conversation about Jesus, let me know and I'll reply to you and I'll make sure that we can get this conversation going so you don't have to wait for me to actually get around to season two. But for some of you guys, maybe you're listening to this years later. That's the beauty of the Internet, right? That these things can live forever. For all I know, you're listening to this 510. A hundred years later, maybe I'm not even around anymore and I'm not a time traveler. But here's what I'm willing to bet.

Jay Lee [00:22:10]:

I'm willing to bet that no matter when you're listening to this, even if somehow you're listening to this 100 years in the future while you're in your flying car or cruising the galaxy in your starship, I am willing to bet that all of these conversations and these questions that we are asking in season one are still just as relevant. That even as science has probably made incredible advances, But I know that you are still wrestling with the same questions of our origins and questions of morality, good and evil and what that even means and meaning and purpose in life. I know that no matter how technologically advanced your world has become, those questions are still just as relevant. And that is why you are listening to this podcast, because you know that the answers to these questions might only be found in the mind and heart of a God. And so thank you guys so much for going with me on this journey through season one. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation in season two with Intro to Jesus. In the meantime, please reach out and I would love to talk to you to discuss any questions that you have and connect you with any resources that I can to help you on this journey. And so that is it for now.

Jay Lee [00:23:41]:

Thank you friends, and hope to hear from you guys soon. If you're enjoying the podcast and you want to support us, please share this episode with someone. If you would like to contact Pastor J, visit Intro to Godpod.com.